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the ability to fund the deficit goes on without much hiccup at all. we're still paying low rates for borrowing. 1.7%. all those predictions were -- >> they were playing ridiculously low rates in greece too. it's a dollar bubble. it's a treasury bond bubble. will it burst in 2013? maybe. it's going to burst eventually. it has to burst. >> peter, it's not a model. it's not a model to say something bad will happen eventually. >> your model about being a pollyanna and having your head in the sand -- >> it's not. >> how did you miss the financial crisis? >> i have no idea what you're talking about, peter. i have no idea what you're talking about. i was one of the first reporters to report on the housing and the mortgage crisis. i'll show you the clips. >> you were one of the guys laughing on me when i was report -- >> like a lot of what you say is ridiculous. >> guys, guys. [ overlapping speakers ] >> time-out. >> something bad will happen eventually, peter. >> time-out guys. i have a question for you peter. you're predicting currency crisis and significan
the ability to fund the deficit goes on without much hiccup at all. we're still paying low rates for borrowing. 1.7%. all those predictions were -- >> they were playing ridiculously low rates in greece too. it's a dollar bubble. it's a treasury bond bubble. will it burst in 2013? maybe. it's going to burst eventually. it has to burst. >> peter, it's not a model. it's not a model to say something bad will happen eventually. >> your model about being a pollyanna and having your...
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i want it to go for deficit reduction. but that's not what we're hearing. >> the sequestration delay that republicans would like to see a 30-day delay. take it to the march deadline for the debt limit. the democrats want to go further out. what would you accept? >> the sequestration was signed into law by the president 18 months ago. it takes effect january 2nd. it was an important part of the last debt limit discussion. there's no way in the world that you can play that forward to the next debt limit discussion. that just doesn't work. the sequestration has to go forward as it is written as the president signed into law. remember all of this, the tax piece, the sequestration and don't forget obama care taxes, all of those were things signed by the president. clearly he wanted this scenario, or he wouldn't have signed those pieces of legislation. >> i would like to push a bit more on bill's previous question about tax hikes. because if i'm not wrong and do correct me if i'm wrong, you have said before that you would not vo
i want it to go for deficit reduction. but that's not what we're hearing. >> the sequestration delay that republicans would like to see a 30-day delay. take it to the march deadline for the debt limit. the democrats want to go further out. what would you accept? >> the sequestration was signed into law by the president 18 months ago. it takes effect january 2nd. it was an important part of the last debt limit discussion. there's no way in the world that you can play that forward to...
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Dec 31, 2012
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we still have deficits that have to be dealt with. we still have to think about how we put our economy on a long-term projectry of growth, how we put money into education, infrastructure that help our economy grow. and keep in mind that threat of tax hikes going up is only pun part of the so-called fiscal cliff that everybody has been talking about. >> what we also have facing us starting tomorrow are automatic spending cuts that are scheduled to go into effect. and keep in mind that some of the spending cuts that congress has said will automatically go into effect, have an impact on our defense department, but also impact things like head start. so there are programs scheduled to be cut that we're using an axe instead of a scalpel. may not always be the smartest cuts. so that is a piece of business that still has to be taken care of. i want it make clear that dealing with the automatic spending cuts threatened for next month, they also have to be balanced. remember my principle is, let's do things in a balanced responsible way and re
we still have deficits that have to be dealt with. we still have to think about how we put our economy on a long-term projectry of growth, how we put money into education, infrastructure that help our economy grow. and keep in mind that threat of tax hikes going up is only pun part of the so-called fiscal cliff that everybody has been talking about. >> what we also have facing us starting tomorrow are automatic spending cuts that are scheduled to go into effect. and keep in mind that some...
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republicans don't care about deficit reduction. if they had they would have allowed it to take place and reduced the deficit. >> i am always interested in what he has to say. it is interesting, this vote asked, what do conservatives and republicans believe in the house and what do republicans believe? as i have said to you from day one, democrats want the fiscal cliff. howard dean said on your program, it is the best deal that they are going to get. the republicans would never go along with and they are going to get tax raises on rich people. and when we go off the physical cliff congress goes back into session. republicans are blamed for the bad economy and roger is right. the three programs, social security and medicare and medicaid have been untouched. roger, the reason i give this one cheer out of three cheers, i think he is right. the democrats are salivating to demonize and this deal is the best they are going to get. >> in this one, some people say, that the real hidden agenda is to break the pledge on tax cuts and break the
republicans don't care about deficit reduction. if they had they would have allowed it to take place and reduced the deficit. >> i am always interested in what he has to say. it is interesting, this vote asked, what do conservatives and republicans believe in the house and what do republicans believe? as i have said to you from day one, democrats want the fiscal cliff. howard dean said on your program, it is the best deal that they are going to get. the republicans would never go along...
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the deficit has been improving. the federal deficit has improved over the last couple quarters. >> so is it the case that perhaps because the economy has done better that perhaps that would save us from a credit rating downgrade even if we go over the cliff? >> i don't expect another downgrade from the other rating firms. the next step would be putting it on negative watch. all three major credit rating firms have a negative outlook. the next step is a negative watch and then a downgrade. we don't expect that to happen. especially if the debt ceiling is raised, which is likely, not many people have been speaking about it, but that's likely to come out over the next couple of weeks. then there's the entitlement reform, which probably is more importantly actually than the deficit talks. >> so in terms of entitlement reform, if we have a mini deal, so to speak, where certain tax rates are maintained for the middle class, let's say, but the amount of time in which entitlement reform can be worked out is an extended time
the deficit has been improving. the federal deficit has improved over the last couple quarters. >> so is it the case that perhaps because the economy has done better that perhaps that would save us from a credit rating downgrade even if we go over the cliff? >> i don't expect another downgrade from the other rating firms. the next step would be putting it on negative watch. all three major credit rating firms have a negative outlook. the next step is a negative watch and then a...
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part of that is deficit reduction. part of it is also making sure that we're investing, for example, in rebuilding our infrastructure, which is broken. and, you know, if we are putting people back to work rebuilding our roads, our bridges, our schools, in part, paying for it by some of these broader, long-term deficit reduction measures that need to take place, that will grow our economy at a time while setting our path for long-term fiscal stability. number three, we have a long-term opportunity around energy. america can become an energy exporter. how do we do that in a way that deals with some of the environmental challenges that we have at the same time? that's going to be a third thing. but the most immediate thing i've got to do, starting on january 1st, if congress doesn't act before the end of the year is make sure that taxes are not going up on middle class families. because it is going to be very hard for the economy to sustain its growth trends if suddenly we have a huge fight taken out of the average americ
part of that is deficit reduction. part of it is also making sure that we're investing, for example, in rebuilding our infrastructure, which is broken. and, you know, if we are putting people back to work rebuilding our roads, our bridges, our schools, in part, paying for it by some of these broader, long-term deficit reduction measures that need to take place, that will grow our economy at a time while setting our path for long-term fiscal stability. number three, we have a long-term...
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we need to reduce our deficit. and so it's important to ask folks at the very top to go back to paying their clinton-era rates on the amount of income above $ 250,000. and tom was right about that. >> i'm not trying to get him into trouble. i don't see it that way. you couldn't get me in any more trouble. but seriously, republicans need to step back here, take a breath and say, look, we couldn't make the bush tax cuts permanent for anybody, when bush was press we had both houses. we're on the verge of getting at least 80%, maybe more, for at least 98% of the american people. that's a huge win. and once that revenue is off the table it's going to be very hard for democrats to ever put it back on the table. it actually forces them towards spending and entitlement reform in places they're historically uncomfortable. >> chris would you be more comfortable if we went back to those rates to consider a simpson-bowles overall tax reform? is that just gone? you know, the rate there was 28%. once you get back to 39% isn't it
we need to reduce our deficit. and so it's important to ask folks at the very top to go back to paying their clinton-era rates on the amount of income above $ 250,000. and tom was right about that. >> i'm not trying to get him into trouble. i don't see it that way. you couldn't get me in any more trouble. but seriously, republicans need to step back here, take a breath and say, look, we couldn't make the bush tax cuts permanent for anybody, when bush was press we had both houses. we're on...
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Dec 27, 2012
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got a debt and deficit issue, debt-to-gdp issue way too high, approaching european levels, and we've got to solve it. >> such a pity that is it has to go down to the weather. >> my pleasure. >> the market is senting a happy new year. but now it's down just 16 points. >> feels like we're on thin as i aid with some so are you pouring your money into seconds sis no way. outdorg kay bailey hutchison is with us. kwoind out if she thinks there's room for a deal after the house reconvenes on sunday. stay tuned. [ male announcer ] you are a business pro. omnipotent of opportunity. you know how to mix business... with business. and you...rent from national. because only national lets you choose any car in the aisle. and go. you can even take a full-size or above. and still pay the mid-size price. i could get used to this. [ male announcer ] yes, you could business pro. yes, you could. go national. go like a pro. >>> and there's your green, the doug, s&p and even the s&p are now all slightly in the green now. what happened here as, of course, the dow was down earlier today by nearly 150 points
got a debt and deficit issue, debt-to-gdp issue way too high, approaching european levels, and we've got to solve it. >> such a pity that is it has to go down to the weather. >> my pleasure. >> the market is senting a happy new year. but now it's down just 16 points. >> feels like we're on thin as i aid with some so are you pouring your money into seconds sis no way. outdorg kay bailey hutchison is with us. kwoind out if she thinks there's room for a deal after the house...
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there is no sense that deficit will hammer us right now. >> i have blajerred on too much. my fault. thank you very much sfls let's hit on as many as we can. jimmy p. joining us. and former governor ed rendell. i think steve brought up an important point, governor, which is this, what do you believe is the ultimate goal. adding 50 $60 bucks to benefits will help them live a more comfortable life. will it help the growth goals of the united states? >> i think the greater growth goals can only be accomplished -- look, there isn't going to do anything to get our debt under control. we we have to go back to the drawing board to deal with entitlement reform, military spending cuts and revenue. it is reported this produces 600 billion in revenue, that's not nearly enough. we have to go back tlt drawing board an and make tough decisions. only taking care of the debt will causey think the chain reaction that will cause markes to the explode. economy to grow bp that's more important than any of the little niches you are talking about. >> when will that time kuk? when will we have to go back t
there is no sense that deficit will hammer us right now. >> i have blajerred on too much. my fault. thank you very much sfls let's hit on as many as we can. jimmy p. joining us. and former governor ed rendell. i think steve brought up an important point, governor, which is this, what do you believe is the ultimate goal. adding 50 $60 bucks to benefits will help them live a more comfortable life. will it help the growth goals of the united states? >> i think the greater growth goals...
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smash some deficits, smash some deficits, smash some deficits, smash some deficits. >> that was gallagher, too? >> that was gallagher. one of our more memorable moments with rick santelli, who can do incredible things with a very large mal let. rick, good morning. happy ne year to you. we're going to do smashing here if things don't happen in the next few hours. >> they are. as a matter of fact -- hold on. got to get some props that you can't see. you know, i think it's almost time for us to do a big whoopee, because maybe we are close to a deal. but after listening to that spot, i think i'm going to modify whoopee to maybe whoop-pea. because i think we went from smashing pumpkins to potentially smashing a pea. and maybe even the pea is going to be a little bit too big. so we went from gallagher -- there we go. there's our debt smashing for the end of the year. okay? it's basically a pea. and maybe we don't even get that. because most likely, what we are dealing with here, unlike with gallagher and the watermelons and big hammer, is pretty much about a tax deal. okay? we've done all of th
smash some deficits, smash some deficits, smash some deficits, smash some deficits. >> that was gallagher, too? >> that was gallagher. one of our more memorable moments with rick santelli, who can do incredible things with a very large mal let. rick, good morning. happy ne year to you. we're going to do smashing here if things don't happen in the next few hours. >> they are. as a matter of fact -- hold on. got to get some props that you can't see. you know, i think it's almost...
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this is not a deficit reduction deal that will stabilize the debt to gdp ratio and that has to be -- that has to be one of the goals of a broader deal that now we're probably going to be looking for on the other side of the cliff. >> yeah. i don't know. it doesn't seem to be any part of the president's goal. jared, good to see you always. jimmy, you, too. we'll get you guys back in just a few minutes. we'll get you to the roundtable if you haven't had enough yet. what will it mean for banks? new analysis shows that the expiration ever tax cuts will improve bank savings in 2013, by, listen to this, 54%. in other words, people will need to pull their cash savings out to pay for higher taxes. here now is dan geller, executive vice president of market rates insight. dan, good to have you here. walk me through this math. you're saying the average american is going to put 54% less into savings this year because if we go over the fiscal cliff? explain. >> yeah. let's go back, michelle because the amount of taxation on an average household is effort mated at $2600, and right now the average
this is not a deficit reduction deal that will stabilize the debt to gdp ratio and that has to be -- that has to be one of the goals of a broader deal that now we're probably going to be looking for on the other side of the cliff. >> yeah. i don't know. it doesn't seem to be any part of the president's goal. jared, good to see you always. jimmy, you, too. we'll get you guys back in just a few minutes. we'll get you to the roundtable if you haven't had enough yet. what will it mean for...
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the problem with the fiscal cliff is it would put in place deficit reduction, but it would put in deficit reduction too much, too quickly, and with the wrong parts of the budget. so it would let all of the tax cuts expire, it would let many things like the alternative minimum tax hit the middle class. it would have a big, broad-based sequester that goes into place, not gradually, like we would want, to help not derail an economic recovery, but abruptly, and it deals with the wrong parts of the budget. so what you want to do is replace this big amount deficit reduction, all hitting just at the time when the economic recovery is starting to take hold, with a more thoughtful plan that's phased in gradually. so it doesn't do too much deficit reduction up-front, but it puts in the necessary changes to health care cost, retirement, tax reform, all over time and puts us on a sustainable path to a better place. >> let me ask you a central question. is america different from europe? can america continue to run huge budget deficits, because the feds can buy treasuries and prop up the market, and be
the problem with the fiscal cliff is it would put in place deficit reduction, but it would put in deficit reduction too much, too quickly, and with the wrong parts of the budget. so it would let all of the tax cuts expire, it would let many things like the alternative minimum tax hit the middle class. it would have a big, broad-based sequester that goes into place, not gradually, like we would want, to help not derail an economic recovery, but abruptly, and it deals with the wrong parts of the...
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president says he wants to do and romney says he wants to do when we got -- when we have a trillion dollar deficit. >> just a few days before the election day and your analysis of the polls have given the president better than 80% chance of winning re-election? >> the fact that the president leads in the polls in ohio and iowa states where you would need -- he would need to win 207 electoral votes means he's the favorite in the electoral college. >> this is the era of reflation. bernanke is writing checks, maria. >> writing checks from the -- >> my friend steve jobs has lots of cash in the bank. >> you started brewing sam adams beer in your kitchen in 1984. tell me how that happened, how -- how did you decide you wanted to brew your own beer in the kitchen? >> well, i come from six generations of brewmasters, so beer was kind of in my history, in my blood. about .06, that was still legal. >> homeless to a millionaire? >> we believed what we did would work, no matter how bad times were. >> in 2020, are we going to be in a much better place? the alternative was not the greatest health care system in
president says he wants to do and romney says he wants to do when we got -- when we have a trillion dollar deficit. >> just a few days before the election day and your analysis of the polls have given the president better than 80% chance of winning re-election? >> the fact that the president leads in the polls in ohio and iowa states where you would need -- he would need to win 207 electoral votes means he's the favorite in the electoral college. >> this is the era of...
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i have a slightly deficit take. i certainly agree, banks have been on fire 40% versus s&p up the last six months. they've been terrific stocks recently. a lot of optimism gets put into these names and i see a lot of headwinds to tensipotentia pote it. >> being? >> regulatory pressure high. and keeping interest margins under pressure. loan demand is still pretty weak. cni, commercial and industrial loan demand is starting to weaken. you have political pressure and uncertainty, which remains high. there's a lot of problems here. one in particular, in regulation, i think is underappreciated here. you referenced it in your spot. the coming central clearing of derivatives mark, i think is a big problem. >> when i say basel-free, people's eyes glaze over, where are you regarding basel-free and what it means to profits? >> a fair question and huge unknown. we're starting to see some firms begin to reshape their business, particularly on the market side, where a lot of pressure is. there's a busy called fix income and commo
i have a slightly deficit take. i certainly agree, banks have been on fire 40% versus s&p up the last six months. they've been terrific stocks recently. a lot of optimism gets put into these names and i see a lot of headwinds to tensipotentia pote it. >> being? >> regulatory pressure high. and keeping interest margins under pressure. loan demand is still pretty weak. cni, commercial and industrial loan demand is starting to weaken. you have political pressure and uncertainty,...
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now, the imf has suggested france should give itself more leeway to meet deficit targets. the fund's mission chief, edward gardener, said the country's target of 3% gdp was less pressing than cutting excess from public finances. the imf warned against more tax hikes, warning these could further restrict french economic growth. >>> and speaking exclusively to nbc, the ceo of alcatel-lucent says he expects french companies to continue to battle head winds. >> we will improve on structural inners, for sure. if you take a european approach, you certainly will see some of the benefits of the structural improvement that we made. but if you look two feet on the ground, i think 20 is 13 will not be substantially better than 2012. >> what about your business? >> i think what you saw in 2012 was that the u.s. market was very strong. europe was weak. china was very weak. and i think that if you look to 2013, the u.s. will stay strong. i think europe will stay where it was in 2012 and i think that in china, we'll see. >> how are you dealing with the competition from asian telecom equi
now, the imf has suggested france should give itself more leeway to meet deficit targets. the fund's mission chief, edward gardener, said the country's target of 3% gdp was less pressing than cutting excess from public finances. the imf warned against more tax hikes, warning these could further restrict french economic growth. >>> and speaking exclusively to nbc, the ceo of alcatel-lucent says he expects french companies to continue to battle head winds. >> we will improve on...
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amazon is fighting many deficit fronts, fighting google, netflix, fighting apple. when eventually everything comes home to roost, amazon will have their rollover period. when it gets down to the 218 range, we welcome take some off but i think it will go over and crack the $200 level. >> you wont to go an that one? >> no. i think it could have trouble going forward and perhaps that outage on christmas eve on netflix showed the kink in the armor on their web services. >>> wrapping to the highest level in 21 months, the yen hits mult multilevel lows versus the u.s. dollar. let's bring in kathy. great to have you. nice to see you. >> great to be on. >> certainly is a popular trade these days. is it too crowded and likely tie soon? >> there's your question. well, basically the yen trade is the trade of the year that everyone was calling for in 2013. we've already seen a huge move. so i think that, you know, there's a lot of people who have ran into the trade over the past month. i think that, you know, while there's still fundamental reasons for the dollar yen to move h
amazon is fighting many deficit fronts, fighting google, netflix, fighting apple. when eventually everything comes home to roost, amazon will have their rollover period. when it gets down to the 218 range, we welcome take some off but i think it will go over and crack the $200 level. >> you wont to go an that one? >> no. i think it could have trouble going forward and perhaps that outage on christmas eve on netflix showed the kink in the armor on their web services. >>>...
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the country managed to avoid bailout so far, but will not meet its deficit target for the full year. do you think spain should be given more time? >> well, first of all, i think that, again, spain is going in the right direction. when you look at the current account, the deficit, you see that it had been diminished massively since the peak that they had in 2008, 2009. and, you know, as a very short summing up, it's been divided by more than five, though it's very, very encouraging. on the other hand, you have unit labor costs which have been diminishing quite a lot and the exports of spain are very dynamic today. so it also demonstrates that hard work is being done. it's difficult. it's tough, but going in the right direction. i trust that the global observers are observing progressively and the adjustment is proceed. in spain and in all the countries that are under adjustment. >> now, lonmin's ceo ian farmer is stepping down while being treated for a serious illness after being first admitted to hospital back in august. the south african miner says it's already appointed an executiv
the country managed to avoid bailout so far, but will not meet its deficit target for the full year. do you think spain should be given more time? >> well, first of all, i think that, again, spain is going in the right direction. when you look at the current account, the deficit, you see that it had been diminished massively since the peak that they had in 2008, 2009. and, you know, as a very short summing up, it's been divided by more than five, though it's very, very encouraging. on the...
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it will add to what is already shaping up as a large production deficit. it's interesting, because in the middle of the year, they were saying 2013 we were going to have a big production surplus. doesn't look like it's going to go that way. however, it would be a help. this is not another gold or silver from the standpoint of causing a super explosion, in my opinion. >> what about oil, gas, the other liquids? >> i don't like natural gas. natural gas has kind of been a favorite because its long term prospects are excellent. if you ask me two, three, five years from now, i would be very bullish. right now we have record supplies. weather doesn't look that great. at least for the first part of the year, i don't particularly like it. now, crude oil over supplied market, more than abundant supply but i'm bullish. there's too much going on geopolitically. if we do have even this modest improvement in global demand for industrial commodities we talked about in copper, we will see that translate. i would not be short crude. i would be looking to buy weakness in cr
it will add to what is already shaping up as a large production deficit. it's interesting, because in the middle of the year, they were saying 2013 we were going to have a big production surplus. doesn't look like it's going to go that way. however, it would be a help. this is not another gold or silver from the standpoint of causing a super explosion, in my opinion. >> what about oil, gas, the other liquids? >> i don't like natural gas. natural gas has kind of been a favorite...
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the facts is, if you're serious about this debt, if you're serious about deficit reduction, we have to be able to both get some new revenue. asking millionaires to pay a little bit more in marginal rates. we have to get serious about how we're going to do spending cuts in the right way. republicans have said department of defense shouldn't be on the table. we shouldn't demand more of the 50 seat accountability from across government. we are putting spending cuts on the table and investing for economic growth on the table. we need to stop having a discussion about who the bad guy is and start getting serious about getting this done. >> good luck on sunday night. we're all looking forward to seeing what you guys get done on sunday night when you're back in session. it's good to have you on. we have a market flash. >>> michelle, want to take a check on the share of facebook today. reversing some of the losses on reports that ichb stay gram had lost 25% of its users since it changed its service. the data came from a firm called app data. doing a bit of a deeper dive saying that the drop in
the facts is, if you're serious about this debt, if you're serious about deficit reduction, we have to be able to both get some new revenue. asking millionaires to pay a little bit more in marginal rates. we have to get serious about how we're going to do spending cuts in the right way. republicans have said department of defense shouldn't be on the table. we shouldn't demand more of the 50 seat accountability from across government. we are putting spending cuts on the table and investing for...
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direct limb reply indicated in the fiscal cliff talks but it is relevant to the larger issue of debt and deficits. the treasury can move money around in certain ways to extend the point where we actually reach a crisis for probably a couple of months. but this is an early warning sign. secondly, republicans in the house sent word to democrats in the senate, white house, it is your turn now. we acted to put off the fiscal cliff several months ago with a bill that without objection tend all of those bush tax rates into the future and would turn off the sequester by switching defense cuts over to domestic programs. democrats, of course have no intention of doing that. especially after president obama won the election. senate democratic leadership aide tells me that will remains a 50/50 chance we will get a mini deal temporary extension of tax cuts under $250,000 before the january 1 deadline when we would go over the cliff. will are no assurances of that. a white house official told me as president obama prepares to fly back to conduct and participate in the negotiations at the end, there has been n
direct limb reply indicated in the fiscal cliff talks but it is relevant to the larger issue of debt and deficits. the treasury can move money around in certain ways to extend the point where we actually reach a crisis for probably a couple of months. but this is an early warning sign. secondly, republicans in the house sent word to democrats in the senate, white house, it is your turn now. we acted to put off the fiscal cliff several months ago with a bill that without objection tend all of...
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i'm shaving a little bit off of this year's deficit. we're going to have fiscal problems for as far as the eye can see, an here's where an investor, a smart investor is going to want to diversify, especially into things like tangible assets like gold. >> you're going to make the case for gold here, which, you know, has had a heck of a run for the last decade or so, but it has started to show signs of wear and tear. what would propel gold from here necessarily? >> well, two things that i would have your viewers take a look at. the first is the reason why gold has kind of flattened out at about 1650 or so is because a huge amount of supply has come on the market. there's a lot of profit-takers who are worried about increased taxes next year. as you said, they have made a lot of money on gold, so they are selling it right now and locking in those profits. the other thing to look at that very few investors have caught on to but when i was at the mint we studied this, gold demand and gold prices correlate very well with the national debt cei
i'm shaving a little bit off of this year's deficit. we're going to have fiscal problems for as far as the eye can see, an here's where an investor, a smart investor is going to want to diversify, especially into things like tangible assets like gold. >> you're going to make the case for gold here, which, you know, has had a heck of a run for the last decade or so, but it has started to show signs of wear and tear. what would propel gold from here necessarily? >> well, two things...
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the market will turn to a deficit in 2013 on increasing demand in the auto industry where palladium is used in exhaust systems for cars. combined with decreasing global supply, especially in south africa and russia, which control a number of the world's palladium mines, a rally that began in earnest in 2012 will go into overdrive in the new year. >>> all right. so then how should you play commodities next year? let us bring in rbc's george gero with his take on gold, silver and copper, and andy lit li lithbm. silver kicked butt. will it do so next year? >> i think so. i'm wearing my silver bullish cuff links if you notice that. i think this is the year for silver. silver is a bridge between investment demand and industrial demand and this year i think we're going to have both. >> how high do you see silver going, george? give us a number. >> i can't give you a specific number, but i'll give you a range of somewhere between oh, 40 to $45. >> okay. and that's your number one pick for next year, george. andy, you're over in the energy patch. what do you see for crude, gnna gas and for wha
the market will turn to a deficit in 2013 on increasing demand in the auto industry where palladium is used in exhaust systems for cars. combined with decreasing global supply, especially in south africa and russia, which control a number of the world's palladium mines, a rally that began in earnest in 2012 will go into overdrive in the new year. >>> all right. so then how should you play commodities next year? let us bring in rbc's george gero with his take on gold, silver and copper,...
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anyone who travels around this country knows we have a public goods deficit. it's something we'd love to see more in helping to boost the underlying productivity of the economy. and implementation. this doesn't get enough discussion. the affordable care act and dodd-frank first term agenda items are not yet implemented and there's going to be a lot of that in term two. other than that i see probably tax and entitlement reform. and don't forget guns. guns are -- >> tax and entitlement reform. when does that happen. how does it happen? we're assuming a baby deal, so i assume that that doesn't happen in that context. are you talking about a grand bargain? >> right. i am. and i'm saying that these guys actually got pretty far towards some kind of a bargain that involved cutting some entitlement growth, restructuring the tax code in ways that i think are pretty good. >> when would this happen in your perfect world? >> i think this would start to happen, not too long after we resolve the cliff. so, probably late february, march it would begin. but it's going to take
anyone who travels around this country knows we have a public goods deficit. it's something we'd love to see more in helping to boost the underlying productivity of the economy. and implementation. this doesn't get enough discussion. the affordable care act and dodd-frank first term agenda items are not yet implemented and there's going to be a lot of that in term two. other than that i see probably tax and entitlement reform. and don't forget guns. guns are -- >> tax and entitlement...
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about half a trillion in cuts, over ten years, we're doing that every five months when it comes to the deficit. $100 billion more person month that we spend over what we take in. you have to have bigger cuts on the table to get republicans to come along. >> we're only paying for 40% of what we spend today. it's interesting to see and what the futures are doing right now. very thinly traded at this hour on a friday evening it would be interesting to see and what they signal in terms of where we stand, now that we've heard from the president and some sort of modest optimism from both leader reid and minority leader mitch mcconnell. >> tyler, we want to go back to eamon javers. >> you just said when will we hear now from the president again? nbc news is tweeting that barack obama will appear as a guest on "meet the press" this weekend. when we will hear from the president again will be sunday morning. something to watch out for over the weekend. presumably, we'll get incremental details on what this deal is. as this is negotiated throughout friday night, into saturday and the president's appearan
about half a trillion in cuts, over ten years, we're doing that every five months when it comes to the deficit. $100 billion more person month that we spend over what we take in. you have to have bigger cuts on the table to get republicans to come along. >> we're only paying for 40% of what we spend today. it's interesting to see and what the futures are doing right now. very thinly traded at this hour on a friday evening it would be interesting to see and what they signal in terms of...
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i think the words "come together" means something deficit to all of us. in the spirit of the holidays, in an effort to bring all our political leaders, i think "come together" means a lot. >> now, this come together message will go not only on coffee cups in the area but across old and new media. when we sat down and talked to customers here, it really really resonates with what customers want to see done. >> they do need to come together and i think they need to get this settled before we do go off the fiscal cliff because i think a lot of people are really stressed out. >>> think that message "come together" is exactly what needs to happen. i'm frustrated by six, 10 people who think they can hold out to get their last little pork or thing into the bill, that seems unfortunate. >> of course, in the age of social media, in particular, no message of any kind goes untweeted. we did hear from house speaker john boehner's spokesman, brendan buck, who tweeted quote my capitol hill location did not have an inspirational message. i feel so lost. and so it goes.
i think the words "come together" means something deficit to all of us. in the spirit of the holidays, in an effort to bring all our political leaders, i think "come together" means a lot. >> now, this come together message will go not only on coffee cups in the area but across old and new media. when we sat down and talked to customers here, it really really resonates with what customers want to see done. >> they do need to come together and i think they need to...
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long-term consequence of leaving things the way they are in the fiscal cliff takes $7.3 trillion out of deficit over ten years, isn't that what we really have to do? it seems to me i would really be interested in investing in american equities if i knew the financial situation was under hold >> you say the ends justify the means, no matter how painful? >> it doesn't matter how painful it is and it will be a short shallow recession if we go into it. if we kick the can down the road as so many of you are saying we hope would happen. that's not what should happen for the long-term future of the country. >> you're saying, come on, folks, let's settle. it won't be that big of a deal. right? >> i do disagree with howard a little bit in that i don't think cutting $7.3 trillion, the way this deal says that we should, is the best way to -- to deal with our long-term budget issues. kind of like, you know, you know you have to lose weight so you starve yourself as opposed to some sort of pragmatic balance of, you know, diet and exercise and this deal doesn't get you to the pragmatic part. the flip side, o
long-term consequence of leaving things the way they are in the fiscal cliff takes $7.3 trillion out of deficit over ten years, isn't that what we really have to do? it seems to me i would really be interested in investing in american equities if i knew the financial situation was under hold >> you say the ends justify the means, no matter how painful? >> it doesn't matter how painful it is and it will be a short shallow recession if we go into it. if we kick the can down the road...
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dysfunctional and it does speak with the debt ceiling one or two months forward to a potential for deficits to remain in the trillion dollar category going forward. so as that symptomatic or emblemattic of a type of credit, perhaps not. we would very much watch the fiscal situation as it develops over the next several years and the ability to reduce entitlements, to raise taxes, to bring it into balance. >> and finally, bill, before i let you go, 2012 will certainly be remembered for the statement that you made that the cult of equity is dying and whether it's jack bogul that was on the program who says he disagrees, and you can say he was talking his book as others say you were talking yours, but you get the idea he disagrees with that. many other people on this network flat out disagree with that statement. what would make you change your mind and do you regret making that comment? >> well, first of all, you have to understand, i said that the cult of equity is dying, i didn't say that stocks would out perform bonds as pimico believes that's the case. the cult of dying means investors are
dysfunctional and it does speak with the debt ceiling one or two months forward to a potential for deficits to remain in the trillion dollar category going forward. so as that symptomatic or emblemattic of a type of credit, perhaps not. we would very much watch the fiscal situation as it develops over the next several years and the ability to reduce entitlements, to raise taxes, to bring it into balance. >> and finally, bill, before i let you go, 2012 will certainly be remembered for the...
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. >> there's a lot of people that say what we need to do, we can run a 2% deficit. we need to get back to "x" amount of revenue, and "y" amount of government spending. and most people say somewhere between like 18 revenue, 20 spending, maybe 19 revenue, 21 pending. given what the democrats and the white house are offering on the spending cuts, do you feel that maybe they're thinking they want to keep it at 23, 22, 24? we're not seeing anything that gets us anywhere near 20 or 21 in terms of the offers we're seeing from them. are we? >> no. no. i mean, this would be like, you know, in 1969, we landed the first man on the moon. but it would have never happened if -- the only thing they worried about was exactly how the, you know, the lunar module was going to land, but not how they were going to leave the atmosphere of the earth. you can't worry about the little details on these tax issues. as much as the winners of the election want to punish the rich, because i can't think of any other reason that we dwell so much on that side of it, the rest of it, what did i read?
. >> there's a lot of people that say what we need to do, we can run a 2% deficit. we need to get back to "x" amount of revenue, and "y" amount of government spending. and most people say somewhere between like 18 revenue, 20 spending, maybe 19 revenue, 21 pending. given what the democrats and the white house are offering on the spending cuts, do you feel that maybe they're thinking they want to keep it at 23, 22, 24? we're not seeing anything that gets us anywhere...
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if we're going to have a good solution that gets at our deficit and reduce our debt everything has to be on the table and we'll deal with it. it's great to have rules. we just like to know what they are so we can make the right investments moving forward. >> even if it puts us in a climate of slow growth, even more slow growth than the economy which would be the kind of a climate where you as a ceo wouldn't want to invest in that anyway, you know what i mean? >> so i think a grand bargain won't create a slow economy. i think it will restore confidence and we'll all invest. we'll know what the rules are and the game plan is. weied be ready to move ahead. we have opportunities to grow all the way around the world. we need to know where to put our capital investment. if we know what the rules are, we'll invest. 60% to 65% of our costs are people and we put people back to work every day. >> you don't expect a grand bargain? >> no. >> meaning? >> a short-term fix and perhaps a recession. they talk about this bungee approach and i don't think that's helpful. let's take it away from american
if we're going to have a good solution that gets at our deficit and reduce our debt everything has to be on the table and we'll deal with it. it's great to have rules. we just like to know what they are so we can make the right investments moving forward. >> even if it puts us in a climate of slow growth, even more slow growth than the economy which would be the kind of a climate where you as a ceo wouldn't want to invest in that anyway, you know what i mean? >> so i think a grand...
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so it adds to the deficit and only is willing to raise taxes on millionaires and above and that is getting through the senate. so what you're saying the reverse is true when you look at the house. boehner can pass the senate bill tomorrow as harry reid said today, but he doesn't want to do it with democrats and he wants a majority of the majority. is there anything wrong? wouldn't you like a bipartisan coming together here and everybody's in this? >> it would not be at all, and any of the plans at all, joy. and they campaign on three to one spending on we haven't seen anything like that come out of the senate. and they will not do anything to come out of the senate. >> john boehner can't get his own caulk us to take a vote on his idea to only raise the tax rates. he can't even get his own caucus to do that and he's been humiliated over and over by his own caulk us and he can solve it tomorrow. >> joy ann, harry reid hasn't passed a budget in years. >> he's passed a solution to this crisis. we're talking about the fiscal cliff. >> it hasn't got ensigned into law. there's no success yet ther
so it adds to the deficit and only is willing to raise taxes on millionaires and above and that is getting through the senate. so what you're saying the reverse is true when you look at the house. boehner can pass the senate bill tomorrow as harry reid said today, but he doesn't want to do it with democrats and he wants a majority of the majority. is there anything wrong? wouldn't you like a bipartisan coming together here and everybody's in this? >> it would not be at all, and any of the...
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that's an 8% budget deficit to gdp. we're in the same realm as spain. we're not -- we do not have good optics here. i think it's going to get worse before it gets better. >> craig, you know, i understand that we need a real good kick in the pants, in the fiscal pants if you like, right, to get this house in order. at the same time, if we go over that cliff, this is real money to real people. this is money being taken out of people's paychecks. this is some people losing their unemployment benefits. all kinds of things could happen. how bad could it be? >> well, it certainly could be bad. just as an example of that, if you look at the payroll tax cut alo alone, that doesn't seem to be on the board. that could be an increase in the gasoline tax of $1.25 a gallon. there will be effects, but that has to happen at some point. we've been living on sugar high for too long now. at some point we have to get back to fiscal discipline. there's going to be some pain involved. >> craig, politicians don't get re-elected by not giving out candy. they get elected by gi
that's an 8% budget deficit to gdp. we're in the same realm as spain. we're not -- we do not have good optics here. i think it's going to get worse before it gets better. >> craig, you know, i understand that we need a real good kick in the pants, in the fiscal pants if you like, right, to get this house in order. at the same time, if we go over that cliff, this is real money to real people. this is money being taken out of people's paychecks. this is some people losing their unemployment...
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the market will turn to a deficit on 2013 in the increasing demand in the auto industry where palladium is used in systems for cars. combined with the global system supply. a rally that began in earnest at the end of 2012 will go into overdrive in the new year. . >> joining us now is dan dickert. you just said palladium. that's a big pick for you? >> i was surprised that sharon spoke about palladium. it was my sleeper bet for 2013. >> what's going on with palladium? >> it's a real industrial metal. it's in short supply. it's undertraded, underowned and one of those industrial metals. it's one of those sleeper metal plays that you can make. used in vehicles? >> in the cat converters. that's the main use for them. there's a real shortage that's been going on in palladium. >> look into the crystal ball. give us an oil price if you came back here a year from today. >> this is the toughest one ever. this is the third year i've conpredictions for you twice. it's not so bad. >> you said it would fluctuate? >> there was one guy who said it would rachet between $130 and $160. i said you have to
the market will turn to a deficit on 2013 in the increasing demand in the auto industry where palladium is used in systems for cars. combined with the global system supply. a rally that began in earnest at the end of 2012 will go into overdrive in the new year. . >> joining us now is dan dickert. you just said palladium. that's a big pick for you? >> i was surprised that sharon spoke about palladium. it was my sleeper bet for 2013. >> what's going on with palladium? >>...
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we can't run trillion dollar deficits for a year and expect to get away with that long term. so i think there is a trade-off here in terms of some penalty to growth next year. longer term there are benefits though and going into the year i think you just have to have maybe a little cash in the portfolio but be looking to put money to work in companies that are going to survive, good balance sheets and consistent profitability. stocks are cheap relative to bonds so i don't want to get too defensive here. >> you were with us at the top of the hour and made clear you were on hold until you see something about a fiscal cliff resolution of some kind. is there nothing you would buy between now and the end of the year? >> nothing. maybe some inverse etfs, bill, quite honestly. i want to see not just fiscal cliff resolution but i want to see q 1 earnings. i'm sorry. q 4 earnings. last quarter's earnings were not all that exciting. we really saw the european effect take hold in a lot of these companies really laboring and a lot have bounced back. i think again it is this liquidity dri
we can't run trillion dollar deficits for a year and expect to get away with that long term. so i think there is a trade-off here in terms of some penalty to growth next year. longer term there are benefits though and going into the year i think you just have to have maybe a little cash in the portfolio but be looking to put money to work in companies that are going to survive, good balance sheets and consistent profitability. stocks are cheap relative to bonds so i don't want to get too...
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unemployment to the 2 million americans looking for a job and lays groundwork for more economic growth and deficit reduction. >> just moments ago, senator harry reid says he's readying a bill for a vote by monday. all this follows a rare face-to-face closed door meeting at the white house today between all the key players, the president, the vice president, the treasury secretary and all four congressional leaders huddled together with just four days to go before we all go overs fiscal cliff. that meeting lasted for an hour and five minutes. on a story where every second and every maneuver counts, let's get chief to white house correspondent jessica yellin. jessica, the president says he's modestly optimist being but each also presented a backup plan. does the president really think it will come to that? >> at this point, no, they don't, john, because the white house is hopeful that the agreement that the senators are working on can actually move forward after the meeting here. there is a modest uptick in enthusiasm about that possibility. but as forts backup plan, there's no real likelihood that
unemployment to the 2 million americans looking for a job and lays groundwork for more economic growth and deficit reduction. >> just moments ago, senator harry reid says he's readying a bill for a vote by monday. all this follows a rare face-to-face closed door meeting at the white house today between all the key players, the president, the vice president, the treasury secretary and all four congressional leaders huddled together with just four days to go before we all go overs fiscal...
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they know that we've got to make a down payment on deficit reduction. they know that we've got to protect the middle class and we've got to focus on -- let's -- what i haven't heard about in a couple of days are, our needs get back to the number one issues. creating jobs and getting this economy turned around. this is one of the first things that we have to do so we can move on aggressively towards that. >> bottom line, house republicans are meeting right now. they've just started a second meeting of the day. what do you anticipate will happen tonight? >> you know, i said earlier today, predicting what this group of republican and the house members will do is it certainly a challenge. i know that if -- from working with them as many years as i have, i know there are enough responsible republicans that there would be enough democrats and republicans that would pass that bill and send it to the president so we can prevent 98% of americans from having their tacks increased and we could get a handle on the deficit reduction problem. >> you think there's a d
they know that we've got to make a down payment on deficit reduction. they know that we've got to protect the middle class and we've got to focus on -- let's -- what i haven't heard about in a couple of days are, our needs get back to the number one issues. creating jobs and getting this economy turned around. this is one of the first things that we have to do so we can move on aggressively towards that. >> bottom line, house republicans are meeting right now. they've just started a...
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and the way they agreed to it is they paid down $24 billion on the deficit. remember, congress agreed to these major spending cuts, right? >> that's two months down the road, so even that is kind of a little bit anti-climactic. it is like, my god, the fiscal cliff, the fiscal cliff. we'll deal with it in two months. jessica yellin, so much more to talk to you about. we'll check in later, but thanks so much. >>> as we wait for republicans and democrats to come to the microphones, one democrat just left the meeting, he's going to be joining us next. sten to thesy progressive customers. i plugged in snapshot, and 30 days later, i was saving big on car insurance. with snapshot, i knew what i could save before i switched to progressive. the better i drive, the more i save. i wish our company had something this cool. you're not filming this, are you? aw! camera shy. snapshot from progressive. test-drive snapshot before you switch. visit progressive.com today. to volunteer to help those in need. when a twinge of back pain surprises him. morning starts in high spirit
and the way they agreed to it is they paid down $24 billion on the deficit. remember, congress agreed to these major spending cuts, right? >> that's two months down the road, so even that is kind of a little bit anti-climactic. it is like, my god, the fiscal cliff, the fiscal cliff. we'll deal with it in two months. jessica yellin, so much more to talk to you about. we'll check in later, but thanks so much. >>> as we wait for republicans and democrats to come to the microphones,...
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road and will have to do it later. >> reporter: the fiscal cliff was incentive to try to deal with deficit reduction. this is dismantling the consequence of dealing with the bigger issue. the bigger issue is still going to be with us in the next couple months because now as the debt ceiling is set to hit, this will all come into play. republicans aren't going to budge on increasing the debt ceiling until they get some of the things they want on deficit reduction. they want tax reform. so do democrats want tax reform but they have different ideas about how to do it it. it's kicking the can down the road. there will be a lot more ahead on this. >> brianna keilar breaking it down for us at the white house. thanks for that. >>> eight senators voted against this compromised measure, but the opposition didn't fall along party lines. tom harkin, tom krarner and michael bennett all voted now. so did these five republicans. let's put the politics to the side for a minute and ask the question most of us are wondering. what does this measure mean for you and your wallet? ali velshi is crunch iing the
road and will have to do it later. >> reporter: the fiscal cliff was incentive to try to deal with deficit reduction. this is dismantling the consequence of dealing with the bigger issue. the bigger issue is still going to be with us in the next couple months because now as the debt ceiling is set to hit, this will all come into play. republicans aren't going to budge on increasing the debt ceiling until they get some of the things they want on deficit reduction. they want tax reform. so...
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we still have a huge deficit. if we do not take on spending, then the cliff may not seem like a cliff but will be a downward slide to make us like greece. no lodnger a viable economic power. >> hang on. we'll continue this. we have to take a quick break. the fiscal cliff has the president sounding like new york yankees legend yoeg gi ber ra. >> this is deja shz vu all over again. americans want to know why you can't get stuff down in an organized timetable. >> so if we all saw it coming, why did congress wait so long to do something about it? why do toys for tots and hasbro trust duracell to power their donated toys? duralock power preserve. it locks in power for up to 10 years in storage. guaranteed. duracell with duralock. trusted everywhere. anyone have occasional constipation, diarrhea, gas, bloating? yeah. one phillips' colon health probiotic cap each day helps defend against these digestive issues with three strains of good bacteria. approved! [ female announcer ] live the regular life. phillips'. >>> we are
we still have a huge deficit. if we do not take on spending, then the cliff may not seem like a cliff but will be a downward slide to make us like greece. no lodnger a viable economic power. >> hang on. we'll continue this. we have to take a quick break. the fiscal cliff has the president sounding like new york yankees legend yoeg gi ber ra. >> this is deja shz vu all over again. americans want to know why you can't get stuff down in an organized timetable. >> so if we all saw...
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the bad news i don't think we'll have meaningful deficit reduction and this is going to keep dragging on and on. >> you advocate for raising the capital gains tax which could make main street owe a lot more money than it does now. that is being discussed as part of a fiscal cliff deal but money believe that will hurt the economy and giving a disincentive to invest money. is that just focused on the real wealthy? >> i hear that argument a lot. number one, i'm really tired of our tax policy decisions and everything being made by what the market is going to do in the next quarter. look, this is an aberration and the tax code and grossly unfair. you look at say they raise tax rates, the top tax rate to 39.6% for those making more than $500,000, that's going to mean a lot of small businesses are going to pay that nearly 40% marginal tax rate where you have billionaire private equity funds paying 15, 20 or even 24 depending on where they put it. not an issue of penalizing investment income but penalizing labor and those who make their income through wages and they should both be taxed at th
the bad news i don't think we'll have meaningful deficit reduction and this is going to keep dragging on and on. >> you advocate for raising the capital gains tax which could make main street owe a lot more money than it does now. that is being discussed as part of a fiscal cliff deal but money believe that will hurt the economy and giving a disincentive to invest money. is that just focused on the real wealthy? >> i hear that argument a lot. number one, i'm really tired of our tax...
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it ought to be about reducing the deficit and the debt and what they are essentially suggesting is we want new taxes, we want higher taxes on people in this country to pay for new spending. >> senator, senator mcconnell has spoken a couple times with the vpz. we have seen in the past that the two of them have been able to come up with bipartisan deals to get through congress on taxes and other things. did he give you an indication in the meeting you just had with rank and file republicans that might be an avenue of success? >> there -- those conversations and discussions continue. and we remain hopeful that that will get a breakthrough. on veryiously, what had happened here between the two leaders in the senate had broken down because the senate democrats failed to come forward with a counteroffer to the proposal republicans made last night. so hopefully, the discussions between the vice president and senator mcconnell will get us back on track, hopefully get a breakthrough and something we can vote on, hopefully today or tomorrow that will avert what we believe will be an economic di
it ought to be about reducing the deficit and the debt and what they are essentially suggesting is we want new taxes, we want higher taxes on people in this country to pay for new spending. >> senator, senator mcconnell has spoken a couple times with the vpz. we have seen in the past that the two of them have been able to come up with bipartisan deals to get through congress on taxes and other things. did he give you an indication in the meeting you just had with rank and file republicans...
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we still have a trillion-dollar deficit. we've got a lot of work to do. >> we do have a lot of work to do all i ask is we get the work down. stephen moore, always a pleasure to talk to you. we'll be talking a lot in 2013. >>> coming up, the great tax debate that stephen was just talking about. does raising tax on the wealthy really hurt the economy? i'll give you an answer after this. >>> the biggest issue in all the fiscal cliff wrangling is taxes. it's not the most important issue, but it's the central one. grover norquist told you his strong opposition to any tax increases of any sort. many republicans share his view. let's look at the economy. obviously across the board tax increases would hurt the economy. but what will the real economic reaction be to small tax increases on the wealthiest americans? now, annie lowrie of the "new york times" is still with us. i always have to make sure my viewers understand i am not advocating for tax increases on the rich. i want to explain what could happen. i want to bring in jean za
we still have a trillion-dollar deficit. we've got a lot of work to do. >> we do have a lot of work to do all i ask is we get the work down. stephen moore, always a pleasure to talk to you. we'll be talking a lot in 2013. >>> coming up, the great tax debate that stephen was just talking about. does raising tax on the wealthy really hurt the economy? i'll give you an answer after this. >>> the biggest issue in all the fiscal cliff wrangling is taxes. it's not the most...
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if they hadn't acted, you might see deficit reduction, but not in a way a lot of taxpayers would like. it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months. a lot of talk about entitlement reform, about making the tax code a little different than it is now. so i think we'll have to see that in the coming year. >> astute observations, we'll watch it closely. i appreciate it. kristina the kick the can tringing game is not over. we'll have to say that many, many times over the next two months. >> i want to bring down some of the deal for you, reset the stage. we'll telling you about the dairy cliff. in addition to dealing with the fiscal cliff, it would extend federal farm policies through september, which means milk prices won't double and it nixes a set pay raise for members of congress. the white house scored an agreement to raise taxes on larger estates from 35% to 40%, but republicans said it should be adjusted annually for inflation, it would go 7.5% for individuals, and they would pay higher tax rates on investment profits and capital gains rising to 20%, and less than
if they hadn't acted, you might see deficit reduction, but not in a way a lot of taxpayers would like. it will be interesting to see what happens in the coming months. a lot of talk about entitlement reform, about making the tax code a little different than it is now. so i think we'll have to see that in the coming year. >> astute observations, we'll watch it closely. i appreciate it. kristina the kick the can tringing game is not over. we'll have to say that many, many times over the...
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this time bomb that the congress created was designed to deal with deficit and the debt. we won't get that right now. but we might get a plan to deal with taxes, to avoid the fiscal cliff, that's a win for the economy and the american people. >> john, it is joe johns in washington, d.c. we have heard so much about tax increases and how they're going to handle those and not so much about the spending cuts and my question to you is at the end of the day, are we going to end up essentially with some type of a plan that could add to the federal deficit instead of reduce it? >> you noticed that, huh? sequester hasn't really been the topic of much conversation. look, that is still unclear right now. obviously, again, the point of all of this, the reason that over 500 days ago we set the fiscal cliff with regard to the spending cuts and knew the bush tax cuts were expiring ten years ago on this date, that was an impetus to create bargain to deal with deficit and debt. what seems to be coming together now is largely, as you said, a planned focused on taxes. not just the tough tax
this time bomb that the congress created was designed to deal with deficit and the debt. we won't get that right now. but we might get a plan to deal with taxes, to avoid the fiscal cliff, that's a win for the economy and the american people. >> john, it is joe johns in washington, d.c. we have heard so much about tax increases and how they're going to handle those and not so much about the spending cuts and my question to you is at the end of the day, are we going to end up essentially...
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these tax increases for the rich or not, as you know, you've said, we still have a trillion-dollar deficit. we have a lot of work to do. >> we do. all i ask is that we get the work done. steven moore, always a pleasure. thank you. we'll talk to you a lot in 2013. >>> up next, the great tax debate that steven was just talking act. does raising tax on the wealthy really hurt the economy? i'll give you an answer. s. but you're progressive, and they're them. yes. but they're here. yes. are you...? there? yes. no. are you them? i'm me. but those rates are for... them. so them are here. yes! you want to run through it again? no, i'm good. you got it? yes. rates for us and them -- now that's progressive. call or click today. meet the 5-passenger ford c-max hybrid. when you're carrying a lot of weight, c-max has a nice little trait, you see, c-max helps you load your freight, with its foot-activated lift gate. but that's not all you'll see, cause c-max also beats prius v, with better mpg. say hi to the all-new 47 combined mpg c-max hybrid. >>> the biggest issue is tax increases. many republicans s
these tax increases for the rich or not, as you know, you've said, we still have a trillion-dollar deficit. we have a lot of work to do. >> we do. all i ask is that we get the work done. steven moore, always a pleasure. thank you. we'll talk to you a lot in 2013. >>> up next, the great tax debate that steven was just talking act. does raising tax on the wealthy really hurt the economy? i'll give you an answer. s. but you're progressive, and they're them. yes. but they're here....
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separately is how do we bring down our deficit? do we attack social security entitlements, medicare, medicaid and that's this ideological struggle we're seeing between democrats and republicans that will continue in a series of skirmishes probably over the debt ceiling come february and ongoing until they finally have it out and resolve this for the long term. >> i think the white house's view in political terms is that how he handles himself on this sets the terms of engagement for those subsequent fights. again, a few weeks ago, when i was talking to people at the white house about how they were going to strategize this, they said look, this is a re-set moment and we've got to re-set sort of the balance of power from the 2011 talks. >> i think it's worth emphasizing on the numbers you mentioned the public overwhelming supports raises faxes on the wealthy but on the spending cuts they oppose cutting those programs in large numbers. when you get specific about that, don't cut that, don't cut that. >> hands off medicare. >> the pres
separately is how do we bring down our deficit? do we attack social security entitlements, medicare, medicaid and that's this ideological struggle we're seeing between democrats and republicans that will continue in a series of skirmishes probably over the debt ceiling come february and ongoing until they finally have it out and resolve this for the long term. >> i think the white house's view in political terms is that how he handles himself on this sets the terms of engagement for those...
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we still have deficits that have to be dealt with. we still have to think about how we put our economy on a long-term trajectory of growth. how we continue to make investments in things like education, things like infrastructure that help our economy grow. keep in mind that the threat of tax hikes going up is only one part of this so-called fiscal cliff that everybody is talking about. what we also have facing us starting tomorrow are automatic spending cuts that are scheduled to go into effect. and keep in mind that some of these spending cuts that congress has said will automatically go into effect have an impact on our defense department, but they also have an impact on things like head start. so there are some programs scheduled to be cut that we're using an ax instead of a scalpel. may not always be the smartest cuts. and so that is a piece of business that still has to be taken care of. and i want to make clear that any agreement we have to deal with these automatic spending cuts that are being threatened for next month, those a
we still have deficits that have to be dealt with. we still have to think about how we put our economy on a long-term trajectory of growth. how we continue to make investments in things like education, things like infrastructure that help our economy grow. keep in mind that the threat of tax hikes going up is only one part of this so-called fiscal cliff that everybody is talking about. what we also have facing us starting tomorrow are automatic spending cuts that are scheduled to go into...
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and this was all supposed to be an exercise in bringing down our deficit and our long-term debt and where we are right now, it doesn't appear that we are getting that done and even more importantly, it appears that republicans are still trying to protect the tippy top as opposed to looking after the greater good of the economy and middle class families. >> as far as you-all were told by the democratic leader, where do you think stands -- things stand right now? >> i think that there is a difference in terms of what we think the rates should be for -- and at what point there should be a tax cut and at what point there should be a little revenue that we should collect. there is a difference there. there was a difference about whether or not we should be looking at the social security issue in this discussion. my understanding now the republicans have backed off now, correct, and we are looking at whether or not we are going to end up with deficit and debt reduction and whether or not the changes the republicans are insisting upon are going to comes on the backs of the middle class. >>
and this was all supposed to be an exercise in bringing down our deficit and our long-term debt and where we are right now, it doesn't appear that we are getting that done and even more importantly, it appears that republicans are still trying to protect the tippy top as opposed to looking after the greater good of the economy and middle class families. >> as far as you-all were told by the democratic leader, where do you think stands -- things stand right now? >> i think that there...
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that's really the centerpiece of our deficit and debt challenge. but in the short term that is over the next year or two, i don't think we ought to be tackling the budget deficit. we have huge unemployment, a lot of underutilized capacity in this country. it's exactly the wrong time to embrace austerity economics. ali, if i can just make one more point. that is one thing that really worries me about this current agreement as it is being structured is it doesn't deal with the debt ceiling. there is no agreement on the debt ceiling, which means you're going to have beginning next week or even sooner, republicans and democrats engaged in the same sort of trench warfare we've had for years over raising the dents. and that debt ceiling. without an agreement, we're back to square zero. >> we agree on that point. great to see you both. thanks for staying up with us and happy new year to both of you. hope we don't have to talk again tonight. >> one of the main stumbling blocks in the fiscal cliff negotiations was that no-tax pledge most republicans signed
that's really the centerpiece of our deficit and debt challenge. but in the short term that is over the next year or two, i don't think we ought to be tackling the budget deficit. we have huge unemployment, a lot of underutilized capacity in this country. it's exactly the wrong time to embrace austerity economics. ali, if i can just make one more point. that is one thing that really worries me about this current agreement as it is being structured is it doesn't deal with the debt ceiling. there...